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Civil Beat sat down with both the Republican and Democratic governor candidates to capture their perspective on a range of issues and influences. We requested 30-minute one-on-one interviews with each.

• Read Neil Abercrombie’s Q&A.

James “Duke” Aiona was running late on Oct. 8, the day of Civil Beat’s interview with him. But the lieutenant governor spent some 35 minutes answering our questions.

Indeed, the interview might have gone on longer had Aiona’s campaign managers not politely interrupted to tell the candidate for governor he had other business to attend to. Members of the lieutenant governor’s official staff were also on hand for much of the interview, which was held at Aiona’s Nimitz Highway campaign headquarters.

Aiona provided extensive comments on his commitment to filing his cabinet with young people, why he insists on an audit for the Hawaii Department of Education and the role of faith in his decision-making.

Chad Blair: I don’t know too many people who go from being a judge to a politician. What people inspired you to make that switch?

Duke Aiona: It really wasn’t a conscious decision. Actually what had happened is that I left the bench in December of 1998. The second week of January, I got a call from the chairperson of the Democratic Party, who at that time was Walter Heen — he was the chair at that time. He took me to lunch and he asked me if I was interested in politics. And I said no, no…thank you very much, and we parted ways. God as my witness, two weeks later Linda Lingle calls. She was the chair of the Republican Party and (it was the) same thing.

This was after her ’98 loss?

Yeah, something like that. I know that she was the chair and in fact we had lunch right here at Eagle’s Cafe. Same question, same pitch, and I said I wasn’t interested. I was trying to find my niche into what I really wanted to do. I was doing a bunch of stuff, I guess you could say. I practiced law a little. I partnered with my good (friends) — well, we became friends because our children went to the same school, carpooling — he owned a series of video stores and he told me that “I think future of video is through the Internet, to order on the Internet and then we’ll have a delivery service.” That was his vision. And I said, “Yeah, I think you’re right.” So we opened up a shop in town. Basically all it was (was) a warehouse because it was a delivery service from the ’net.

Like Netflix?

Exactly. It’s just that we didn’t have the marketing; I guess that’s what it came down to. But maybe not, because I thought we did well in marketing. We had a partnership with Papa John’s (Pizza). Anyway, I think we were just ahead of our time.

You had never looked at politicians and gone “That’s what I want to do, there’s a person I admire,” maybe like Ronald Reagan?

No, no. Not at all. Like I said, I was doing all of these different things but the Republican Party kept calling back and saying “Oh, how about this office? How about that office?” And I’d always say no. I don’t know what year it was, but it was in 2001, I don’t (know) what month it was exactly… but in 2001 and they asked “Well, how about lieutenant governor’s office?” I gave the same response and said “No. I’m not interested.” I went home and spoke with my wife and she asked me which office this time. So, I said “Oh, LG, lieutenant governor,” and she didn’t say anything and I went “Oh my God.” She said I should think about it and pray on it.

So, we did. The rest I guess you could say is history. And so here we are. Well, my wife felt that she had instinct on this, and of course we prayed on it, but I guess she felt that I had the background to be a good lieutenant governor. She felt my experience as a judge…everything that I had done in my life up to that point was a good basis for me to be lieutenant governor and that’s how I got involved. So here we are.

Should you be elected governor would you look to the legal community for advice and to fill your cabinet positions?

I’ll be honest with you: I haven’t really given any thought to my cabinet simply because I’m focused on just winning this race. And also because I know once we win it that I shouldn’t have any problems in transitioning. I’ve been there. I saw how it was done when we did it in 2002. I know we’ll have more than enough applicants, believe me, so it’s really just a matter of having a system on how to select whoever you want in your cabinet. You’ve got to have your job descriptions ready. You’re going to have to know your vision of these various departments, which I already have, and then choose accordingly.

The only commitment I’ve made for my future cabinet is that I’m going to make sure we have a commitment for youth. And so everybody asks “OK, what is youth?” So, I say whatever my age is and below. That’s youth. I want to make a commitment because obviously, if we want to have a future, our young people have to be in leadership positions.

What I’m not going to do is what I’ve accused the Democrats of doing and the establishment of doing, and that’s to recycle. They recycle people from the past and bring them back as department heads and whatnot. I’m not going to do that. I mean, when I say I’m not going to do that, I’ll try my best not to, but I don’t want to ever say never. Because there might be a position or there might be a department or this one person that used to be a department head somewhere, where it’s just a great fit. So I don’t like to say that, but, that’s not my intention.

A recent OHA report says that Native Hawaiians are treated despairingly by the Justice System. If elected you’ll be only the second governor of Native Hawaiian ancestry and maybe when the Akaka Bill comes into effect. What steps would you want to take to help Hawaiians? I know that’s a very broad question.

It is. And actually I’ve kind of answered that through…OHA had, I believe it was a survey. We’ve done so many of them. But I’ve always said — and this is really I think that for a lot of questions and issues that I’m asked — I’ll always come back to education. I believe in education. I’m a firm believer in education. I’m blessed to have a mom who instilled that in me. Education is the key to having a future. So get educated. That’s probably the greatest gift that we can give out, not only to Native Hawaiians but to all of our children, is an education. And that’s why it’s been a priority at my home. It’s been a priority for my family. All of my brothers and sisters have a college degree or professional degree, and likewise with my children. So, I’m just a firm believer in education.

Do you think that would help address the overrepresentation of Hawaiians in prisons?

I haven’t had a chance to read this report, so I don’t know what the bases for these findings are. But, I do know that it’s based on my experiences, so I think you can say it’s anecdotal. But I think its good anecdotal evidence because I was the judge that was sentencing people to prison. I was the family court judge who was also having disposition on our juvenile delinquents. I can give anecdotal stuff and I will tell you, that yes, if we have a quality educational system and as well as strong families— because strong families are always the key to this — I think we can make some headway into these problems that we’re facing right now.

I was wondering if I might ask you for some anecdotal evidence? Maybe when you were in drug court or family court. An experience that you still remember, one that shaped you and is still with you to this day…maybe a family torn apart. These experiences must stay with you.

Absolutely. I have many stories but one is this one young lady I had. She initially rejected drug court. I’m usually pretty good at this. When I was a judge I was pretty consistent, so you know, if I said something, I would follow through with it. I didn’t have idle threats in my courtroom. If I said this was it, if you fail you’re going to go to jail, and they knew it. I think that’s why I was so successful with — we call them clients in drug court and other defendants in the normal criminal justice system.

But I remember this one lady who rejected it and I said fine. That’s it. Usually you only get one chance but she came back after three months and begged me. I don’t know what it was, maybe I felt compassion, but anyway I said OK. She knew that this was a gift because it wasn’t supposed to happen.

Is she in prison at this time?

No. When you hear the story it’ll make you cry. So, she got busted again. I think it was another offense. It had to be, because she was on probation for the first offense. It was her first offense where she rejected drug court and said she’d rather have probation and not be in drug court. And then she got arrested again and so now she’s back and now she’s looking at jail time. Because now it’s a second offense.

She was back in court after violating her probation after a short time. Why do you deserve probation? You were already on probation and part of the conditions of your probation is staying out of trouble. So why do you deserve another term of probation when you already violated probation within a few months? So, she knew it was a gift. So, this girl she promised and, you know, I hear a lot of that.

Guys turn to God right in front of me all of a sudden. I’m like God because they turn to God right in front of me and their lives change. So she did everything that we asked for and then some. And when she graduated, this girl; part of the conditions for graduation is that you maintain a full time job for a period of six months and or you’re enrolled in an educational program and you’re working towards a degree.

As I used to tell them, you’re going to be a productive citizen of the state of Hawaii. You’re going to be paying taxes. We used to chuckle about that all the time. In addition to that, I used to always tell them, I’ll know you’re clean if I look at you and you’ve got a little opu (stomach). This was always to the guys.

That’s funny.

It’s true, because I know they are eating instead of taking drugs. They are eating instead of drinking booze. They’re engaging in life. That was always a thing, a running inside joke with us and because they would come to us and they’d say, “Judge!” They would turn to the side and do this (pat their stomachs, sound of slapping sides). Okay, we’re doing good. You know this girl, like I said, she did good. She did everything we wanted.

So usually, for the first few months we see each other once a week so we have a very good dialogue and they get to know who I am. It’s a matter of trust and building a relationship. For many of these clients it’s a matter of building trust in authority. For many of these clients it is a question of authority. They just don’t trust authority at all, that’s been their whole life.

This is why you hear me say it’s easier to build strong children than it is to fix broken adults. Because if you had a strong foundation and you had values and morals — and most of us do have that strong foundation — you don’t have these trust issues because you’d have good parents and everything else, right? You parents are really your first models of authority and you work off of that.

So, we’ve got to build that relationship, and we did, and usually when that’s done they are into their program and I don’t see them as much, sometimes for months. So, this girl I didn’t see her for months. She was a young pretty girl. Slim and what not. Part of it was because of the drugs. She was into some pretty heavy drugs. So, I did’’t see her for three or four months. So she came in I said, “Is that you?” (Laughs.) She had put on some weight, OK? Let’s just put it that way. (Laughs.) So she said, “Yeah, I’m clean.”

And really, what had happened was, not only had she stayed clean and sober but she was such an intelligent girl that she won a four-year scholarship to a major university on the East Coast. I won’t say which one so that I don’t give her away. That was one of my proudest moments. Like a Dad.

She’s done OK since?

She’s done well. She’s done well.

Speaking of drugs and alcohol. As LG, you’ve talked a lot about preventative health. Actually, it’s something that you are running on. You’ve talked about the importance of diet and staying off of drugs. Is it the responsibility of a government leader to get that involved in personal choices of individuals?

Well, you know, it’s not so much getting involved as it is trying to promote it as best as you can try to be an example of it, and that’s what I’m hoping I can do. So actually, some people used to make light of it when I said eat fruits and vegetables and walk the stairs. They said, “There you go, what an important job the LG has.”

But let me tell you, people come up to you and say, “Thank you for telling me about that and I’m taking the stairs now and I’m losing weight.” You know, people laugh and say, What kind of advice is that? Everybody knows that if you walk the stairs it’s healthy for you. But you know what, there are a lot of people who really don’t know that because that hasn’t been their lifestyle.

So, people would come up to me and say, “Thank you for telling me about that, I take the stairs now. I feel good. In fact, I lost weight.” And I’m not just talking about one or two people, I mean, I used to get that on a fairly consistent basis. People coming up to me and saying, “Hey, I’ve lost 20 pounds because I take the stairs now” or “I’m eating fruits and vegetables.”

So it’s not the government telling you what to do necessarily?

No. I’m not telling you what to do, I’m just trying to let them know…Because it is about personal choice. There is personal choice and that’s why, we have to understand we also pay the consequences — I do — if I don’t take care of myself. And then I grumble about it, but whose fault is that? My fault. I’m overextending myself in whatever it might be. No sleep, not eating the right food, whatever it is. I’m overextending myself.

I preach that to my children all the time: “There’s nobody to blame but yourself. You guys know what you’ve got to do. You know how to set your schedule and so act accordingly. You know you’ve got a test tomorrow, what are you doing are you staying up late? Go to bed, get some rest, eat right and you’ll be ready for your test.”

Homelessness. It’s something that you and the governor have had a lot of accomplishments on. Why is it an important issue? What strikes you about folks on the street?

I think its just humanity as a whole. My faith is such that it is part of our ministry to help those in need, and homeless people are those that are in need. It is that compassion that comes from my faith, belief that drives me to try to help that population as best as I can. I like to say that there are three constituencies in homelessness. And the one that frustrates me are the ones that are doing it because they want to do it, the ones that choose to be — you could say homeless, but they’re the ones that choose not to follow rules. They choose to have the independence. “Government get out of my way, leave me alone.”

That’s what they call the chronic homeless?

Yeah. I guess that’s what they call them in the social realm. But, they are just people that just didn’t want to follow rules, don’t want to follow rules. That’s the most frustrating, because what do you do with them? They are basically, I guess, cheating the rest of society. They are living off of land that isn’t theirs. They aren’t paying taxes. They’re not working. They not being productive in that sense.

So what do you do with them? You arrest them? You throw them in jail? What good does that do? You ignore them? They become a nuisance for other people. They sleep in the parks. So, that’s probably the toughest thing. But I tell you what, I’m committed to finding the right solution for that thing, and it isn’t just going to come with me obviously. I’m going to have to speak with everyone involved. I’m not the expert in this area.

But you’re going to continue?

I’m going to definitely. Because that’s the challenge: the challenge is to get everyone off the streets. But we know that there are always going to be people on the streets for one reason or another. And that’s one of them. The other one is people that are mentally challenged or also who have a substance abuse problem. Those are ones that I think are easier for me because I understand them.

But this is out of compassion? That’s pretty important.

Absolutely.

Let me to ask you about two issues that we covered at Civil Beat that I want to get your reaction on. The first is human trafficking. What would you do as governor to help the state in regards to cracking down on human trafficking? I assume it’s an issue you’re familiar with.

Yeah, I mean you’ve got two. You’ve got sexual exploitation of young children and, then of course you’ve got — I don’t know if you’d call this human trafficking — but what we just had with the Aloun Farms.

Actually…

Yeah, I guess that’s another category of human trafficking.

It’s abusing people and using them… How do you correct that?

You’ve got to vigilant, obviously. It’s a matter of enforcement and being aware of the problem. I don’t think i’’s a matter of the laws at this point and time. Although, some would say it’s about the laws and the fact that we have some laws that have some cracks in it. But I’m willing to look at everything, obviously. I’m not going to sit here and tell you…I know I gave you the statement that I don’t think it’s about the law, but people would have to convince me it is about the laws and then we’d have to look at it.

Perhaps with your attorney general — prosecution?

There’s no question about that. Everyone would need to be involved with it. It’s matter of being a collaborative effort with all the stakeholders involved in this, because it’s something that goes back to our basic human values and compassion for other people. You just don’t exploit people. You don’t exploit human beings. It’s wrong. It’s inherently wrong. You just don’t do that. So, we as civilized society who is committed to human equality…we just can’t let that happen. So to me it’s very important. We can’t let that continue.

The other issue is government transparency. We got a lot of attention, mostly positive but not all, for publicizing the salaries of public workers. Where do you stand on things like that? Taxpayer money going towards programs like this. Transparency.

I’m all for transparency obviously because if we choose to work in the public, we give up the right to certain privileges. Privacy is a privilege. It’s a right, actually, it’s a constitutional right. And I also think there are some limitations. So I think, yeah, the media — and there’s times — and I’m going to be perfectly honest I think that the media, they overstep their bounds at times.

But again, it’s a matter of addressing it in the right way. So, it’s a matter of how you’re going to address or object if you think it’s a violation of your privacy. But the bottom line is that absolutely there needs to be a transparency. There needs to be disclosure. I mean, I’m calling for it right now in public schools. I’m asking for an audit. The people in the DOE and BOE might think that I’m being oppressive on that or I’m being in some way unfair.

But I look at it this way, again, we haven’t had that kind of openness with regards to our public schools, or the administration of public schools. Yeah, we’ve had audits, but not of the kind that really lets everybody see — because there should be no secrets in our spending, in any department really, there should be no secrets, right? It’s your money. So, in the spending and the revenues that come in, why should there be any secrets?

But there has been some strong resistance, from unions.

There might be some things, like for instance, if it’s proprietary or criminal in nature or could potentially lead to an investigation, and I think everybody can understand that.

But when it comes to just spending our dollars, why are we hiding it, for a service that everybody gets? Which is education. Everybody is entitled to education. The bedrock of democracy. That’s what’s made our country what it is. Why should that not be open to public scrutiny? It has to be.

We’ve only got time for a few more questions. I want to talk about your faith. You’ve spoken about how very important this is to you. What would you tell voters about the role of faith in your decision-making and how you would approach that as governor?

Religion more so is your way of life. Faith is just your core beliefs and values. For me, it is about my Catholic faith. It’s just me. That’s how I’m living. I choose to live my life like this. So, my decision making…yeah, it’s a part of my life because it’s part of my foundation principles and values. But, really my decision-making is based on my time and my experience as a judge. That’s where I think that’s where I differ from a lot of other politicians, if that’s what you want to call them. I don’t think you have any legislator who’s an ex-judge. Not right now. We’ve had legislators who became judges, but I don’t know of any judges who became legislators.

Russell Blair?

Right, he became a judge. And Rey Graulty is another one.

So, I’m going from being a judge to becoming a public servant. And it makes it so that my whole DNA in regards decision making — and this is what that I learned on the bench — and it’s why I think it’s a better route: If you’re going to become a public official, it’s better to be a judge first than to be a legislator first or a public servant first, or an elected official.

Your decision-making process is such, as a judge, I’m a trial of fact. I represent justice. I represent fairness. People come to my courtroom so that they can have a fair game. In other words, they wanted someone to try their facts that’s going to listen to both sides. Their going to listen to the proponents and opponents. So, they get a chance to present their case, put their facts out there, identify the issues and argue them. As a trial of fact, it’s my duty, it’s my obligation to listen to both sides, be fair, be objective, be dispassionate and then make an independent analysis of it and then rule.

You would apply the same (as governor)?

I do, just because I’ve been doing it so long. So I do it that way. When you make a decision in a courtroom you give more weight to certain pieces of evidence. Likewise in politics, and that’s why I say it’s better to be a judge to become a politician, instead of a politician to become a judge, because I look at politicans now and they kind of go through the same process, except they put a lot of weight on that political factor. And that political factor is who is supporting me. “Where do I get my support from? Where do I get my votes on?” And they put too much weight on that and that’s why when you boil it down it’s not as fair and objective as it can be.

Even though they are hearing people on the other side, they are pretty much going going to be persuaded by “Oh, this is my constituency.” It takes someone kind of special to put that aside and not say I’m not going to even take that into consideration.

Even religious groups?

Yes. Absolutely. So even with me, I’m not going to say that I don’t weigh politics in my decision-making, but it has a minimal amount of weight in regards to how I decide things.

It’s factual and law-based and rational?

Yeah, that’s just the way I decide stuff even at home. Everywhere I go. It’s just my training. And actually, as a lawyer it’s the same way. Even though you’re an advocate, as an attorney, you still have to know what the opposing side’s arguments are, what their case is. So you always have to look to the other side. You never go, “OK, I know what my case is and I’ve got to prove this, this and that,” and just leave it at that. You always have to say, “What’s the other side going to say? What are their arguments? How am I going to counter them?” That’s an advocate.

As a neutral, as a judge, you don’t ask…you ask what the other side is missing but not in the sense of how do I counter it. That’s where the difference comes between a neutral and an advocate. Now, in your analysis…but if you come with it saying by saying, “I like this position. Now, what’s the other side going to say?” Then it’s like a person saying, “OK, I have to pay taxes. How much do I want to get back?” And they start backwards and work it upfront.

You don’t it that way as a judge. You don’t work from your conclusion and work forward. Although there are some…I guess there are some judges who do it that way and say this is what I want to get and then they work it backwards. I like to go the other way and keep it that way. That’s my biggest influence right now and then.

I’d like to confirm something that you’ve said on the record before but that we didn’t report — that you aren’t a member of Transformation Hawaii, Hee Nalu, or the International Transformation Network. I know that you’ve had these questions before but I just wanted to confirm that (this) is the case.

True.

There’s talk about how International Transformation, Harvest Evangelism have been involved in Uganda and may be influencing the government there about homosexuality. Do you have any connection with that at all?

None. I have no knowledge on that. None. My involvement with Harvest Evangelism is through a person by the name of Ed Silvoso who comes to Hawaii periodically. In fact, I went to one of his international conferences in Argentina and that’s been my only involvement with him and it was strictly a religious conference that was not connected…it wasn’t anything that was out of the ordinary in regards to just a Christian conference. And I don’t know anything about Uganda and what their policy is in regards to Uganda. Except that I know when that allegation came out I know that they corrected, they tried to correct (the) record and say that wasn’t their policy etc.. But I don’t know anything about that.

The Transformation Network?

Yeah.

You didn’t go on a trip to Uganda?

No. Never been to Uganda.

There is so much stuff out there on the Internet.

There is. I saw one last night that blew me away. It had myself. I was there holding a girl. And next to this girl was another girl and Mufi Hannemann had his hand around this girl. There was something in the background. There was a caption that said, “Duke Aiona and Mufi Hannemann attending a conference at Oral Roberts University.”

*It wasn’t true? It was something doctored?

Yeah. It was a Photoshop thing. They just doctored the thing and I’m like, “OK, well…”

So, no connection with (Ed Silvoso) other than Argentina. I think Norman Sakamoto went there too?

He was there at that conference.

But that was purely spiritual?

Yeah. It was our own time.

And your own ticket?

Yeah. Well, somebody had sponsored us on that, so we went. Everything else, we paid for. It was like a religious conference. That’s basically what it is. Like H.I.M, Hawaiian Island Ministries. Every year they have Hawaiian Island Ministries here in Oahu. It’s a religious conference. It’s an ecumenical thing, so it’s huge. There are thousands of people. So it’s no different than that.

Two more questions. Clean energy. I know that how important it is to you. I know about the initiative for 2030. It must frustrate you that we have so many potential renewal energy sources here and we have haven’t taken advantage of them over the decades. I know that your administration with the governor has made some progress, but that must really frustrate you, the wind power, the sun power and so forth.

It does. And that’s why I’m so committed to it and that’s why we’re going to do it. In fact I was talking to a group of young families today and I said I think all of you will agree with me that we are committed to renewal energy, clean energy. And they all said absolutely. And so I know everybody…it’s just a matter of educating people also.

I don’t think everybody is as educated as they can be in regards to what this entails. How do we transform our current system, our utility system, to clean renewal energy and efficiency? So, it’s going to have to take some patience and education. Actually more than just some; a whole bunch of it. But we’re moving in the right direction and I know everybody is committed to it. And that’s why I’m excited about this. We will make it. There’s no question about it. We’re going to make it happen.

Last question. Is there anything that you didn’t get to talk about? I know that you’ve got a million things that you’ve got to do and I could have asked you a million questions. A final point that you want to make for Civil Beat.

In regards to the campaign?

Yeah.

Well, I just think that iՉ۪s an important election like everybody says. It truly is. Because you have an opportunity now, for us to continue to move forward toward a brighter Hawaii, a prosperous Hawaii. My opponent is saying the opposite, which is totally not true.

I think again that everybody, everybody will agree with me that we really need a balance in government, that we really do need a two-party system. In fact, I’ve had Democrats tell me that time on. In fact, I’ve had a couple of Democrats, who are strong Democrats that said, “You know, I’m going to vote for you just because I want a two-party system.”

Hmm…some names we’d know?

I’ll just leave it at that because we do want a two-party system. So, what you have to look at is, “Am I capable? Do I have the experience? Do I have the leadership qualities? Do I have the character and the principles and the values to be the next governor?” And I think without a doubt I do. And I don’t say that in a boastful or in a prideful way. I say that in a very confident way. Because I know that I’m prepared to lead, because I wouldn’t want to cheat anybody either. So, I wouldn’t be in this position if I didn’t feel that I could be, that had the skills, that I had the knowledge and I had the ability to be the next governor of the state of Hawaii.

And it’s not about me; and I hope that people understand that there is a difference when I say that it’s not about me. It is really about serving the people of Hawaii. And it’s the same feeling I got when I got sworn in as a judge at the age of 35. And I was a judge with a robe, a black robe. And it hit me at that time that “Hey! This isn’t about me.” That it was about the institution that I am serving. This institution that has been around for hundreds of years. Where people come in and they seek justice and I represent justice. It’s not Judge Aiona. It’s justice that I represent and likewise with this office it’s not Governor Aiona. It’s the governor’s office, the executive branch of the people of Hawaii.

You know, we do a lot of events and we say, “On behalf of the people of Hawaii” and I know that, do you know to say that, how powerful that is? It’s not just a mere slogan. And I know many people in the audience just take it in stride…”Well, yeah, he says that all the time.” But it’s more than that. To say that, that I represent the people of Hawaii…because I do…I went through an election. The majority of people elected me. I represent the people of Hawaii.

I wish it was more. I wish more people had voted. Because then I could really say it more. “Yes, I do represent the people of Hawaii.” The ones that didn’t vote, I’ve got to assume they don’t mind me leading them because they didn’t vote, so they must be OK with my leadership. So, here I am. I’m representing everybody. That’s huge. I’ve said this many times.

I know you haven’t been to my Connecting Communities events, but I’ve said this at many events. Look, there should be no losers when it comes to campaigns. This is not a competitive event. It’s not me against you. Everybody has to be a winner. And why is that? We represent everyone.